The Marketing of Evil
I finished reading The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian this last week and it brought to light how we in this country have been duped into accepting evil as normal. He made some great points about how society has demonized heterosexual marriage and the roles of each partner in a marriage, and how alternative lifestyles (such as homosexuality) are marketed as cool and hip. It gets much worse than this though and his description of what actually happens during an abortion just about made me sick. It was very difficult to even finish that section; he compared it to Nazi Germany and he’s probably right, we just don’t realize it yet (just as the German public didn’t realize what exactly was happening). I didn’t agree with all parts of the book though as he started complaining that the world’s music was being brought into the church and that our youth leaders should stop dressing like the youth of today, etc. This attitude is typical of your standard “Bob Jones” professor who doesn’t want the world to change and likes his organ music and favorite pew.
All of this got me wondering though….
- Why should nonbelievers follow the moral rules that the Bible espouses? If you don’t believe in Jesus, why shouldn’t you try to get every ounce of pleasure you can out of this life? Why not embrace whatever you feel is right for yourself right now?
- Is it our job to pass legislation to prohibit sins from being committed by unbelievers? Even if we have the voting power to pass laws in our favor, should we do so?
- Do we have more sin in our culture than in other parts of the world currently? What about in Jesus’ time?
- Are Christians called to fight culture?
What exactly is our role in society? We are called to be salt – not the main course. Is it because of fear that God will judge us like Sodom and Gomorrah if we don’t change society’s behavior? Maybe it’s because we don’t want to address our own sins like pride, hatred, selfishness, anger, dissention, envying, and strife and we’d rather take the speck out of someone else’s eye.
Labels:
Christian responsibility,
evil,
society
You're raised lot of good questions here Larry.
You all know this, but let me quote Jesus: "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." Notice the last phase!
Does "them" refer only to believers, or people even before they believe? How can you expect to convince someone to obey God's commands if they don't even believe in God?
People who don't know Christ usually don't care about what the bible says about marriage, family, wealth, etc. And clearly, the ultimate answer to society's problems is not new legislation and policing. The answer is Jesus Christ.
Should Christians be activists to protect heterosexual monogamous marriage? Why not? Even if you say, the bible doesn't command us to fight for good, does it specifically forbid it? Doesn't the bible say in Romans 12:9, "Hate what is evil; cling to what is good." Is sin considered "evil" if committed by a non-believer? I say yes.
Do not misunderstand me that we ought to spend all our energy fighting culture, as if we can fix society from the outside inward. I still believe the only fix is Jesus. Our energy is best spent living out godly lives and spreading the gospel of Jesus, not spreading God's rules. But I see no contradiction in voting for, or being an activist for godly principles among non-believers.
Kevin - great point about the only way to fix society is from the inside out and that's going to have to be through Jesus. I also agree with you that our energy should be spent living out Godly lives not in rule enforcement.
Let me throw this out there though. You said "why not?" in regards to being activists for passing laws to protect heterosexual marriage. I'll answer the "why not?" with this:
God doesn't restrict your freedom to make choices that go against his laws. What gives you the right to restrict someone else's ability to make those choices?
If I understand correctly, Larry may summarize with this; Don't tell non-believers what they can and can't do. [He would qualify this by allowing laws only for life, liberty or property.]
It’s a very libertarian view, and it seems like a slippery slope headed down towards legalizing prostitution and drugs, unlimited sexual deviance, etc.
There are some things that are ultimately bad for a society, but people claim are "not hurting anyone else". That is a very difficult thing to fully know and I think this is where my big disagreement begins. I think many of society's problems stem back to things that a God-fearing society would not have done.
The truth is that legislating morality is never going to work. At best, it may slow down the spread of sin into society. Larry may argue that it often backfires, and you could make a case for that too. But the alternative seems to be “giving up”, “rolling over” and and not hating evil.
Really good points Kevin. Our culture has no lines for right and wrong anymore...TV is the single biggest factor in desensitizing our culture...especially "christians" IMO.
Can you imaging Jesus sitting down with the group of women from church to watch the Bachlorette finale?
Kevin hit it on the head... "Our energy is best spent living out godly lives and spreading the gospel of Jesus, not spreading God's rules"
If we saw sin as God sees sin...
You're right - I lean towards the Libertarian viewpoint and maybe that's because my background is full of "you can't listen to Christian rock music - it's from the devil". How far do you go in imposing your morality on someone else? Should prostitution be illegal? Maybe if it was a normal business - it would stop the spread of sexually transmitted diseases instead of being performed by drugged up hookers. Maybe the money saved from fighting the war on drugs (which is billions) could be used to educate people on their addictive nature and for rehabilitation of those who are addicted.
I don't think our only alternative is giving up and rolling over. I think a better alternative is to VOLUNTARILY not do those amoral things and live the abundant life Christ offers.
I say all this but....Chuck is right. "Christians" watch the same crap on TV or go to the same movies as the unsaved and there is no difference. I talked to a PASTOR of a church (no longer functioning) who watched Desperate Housewives every week. So we're not separating ourselves from sin - even when it is within our power to do so.
It would be tough to legalize prostitution when Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more. This world is not our home yet we try to nest as though it was. We're pilgrims on our way somewhere. "Let every man work out his own salvation with fear and trembling"..."As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." Combine the two and it should be pretty clear as to our direction.
I spoke to friend last night about this and he brought up an interesting thought. If as Christians we shouldn't fight the culture war, should a true believer (who votes his God-fearing conscience) not serve in government?
As often as we try to separate religion from politics and the laws of society, we see that every platform espouses some "theology", and if you exclude Christianity, you may in effect promote the theology of atheism.
I don’t think there is such thing as a government completely free of theology.
Larry brought this issue of “fighting culture” up in November of last year here's our back and forth email. Its too long for 1 post, so I broke it into 2 pieces.
From: Larry
To: SkinnerK
Subject: Question for you
As a Christian, are commanded to fight culture? If your answer is
yes, please give an example of where Christians fought culture and
successfully changed it for the good.
SkinnerK wrote:
I would ask, what exactly is meant by "culture"? We are called to be
different. Jesus said that the world will one day hate you for my sake.
Clearly, we are called to be a light, the salt in a world that is apart
from God. The bible doesn't instruct us to "fight culture", but we are
called by the great commission, and to be Holy as He is Holy, speak the
truth in love, honor your authorities, the 10 commandments, and the
"greatest commandment".
Obviously much of the work Christians have done has been ineffective or
counter-effective when they try to clean up or regulate morality. They
end up judging and condemning people and it doesn't work. But the
people who "fight" culture with love and grace do sometimes change
culture for the good. Jesus is the ultimate example, fighting culture
by loving the worst of the worst.
I can't recall all the circumstances, but Tony Campolo has lots of
stories about winning over individuals by radical grace. And Philip
Yancey has tons of stories like that in "What's so amazing about grace?"
book. But other than Jesus, I don't know that society (or culture) as a
whole is changed by an individual who is against it. Society is not
getting better, but I do see individual lives and families being changed
for the good by some godly people.
Kevin
From: Larry
To: SkinnerK
I like your answer a lot. I guess I mean should we vote for laws that
regulate morality? For instance - should we vote against gay marriage
because of our belief that it is morally wrong? Will anyone be
influenced or led to Christ because that legislation is passed? Will
that actually help anything or just cause resentment against Christians?
[part 2 of Larry and Kevin email]
SkinnerK wrote:
I have a blackberry not an iPhone so I'm slow.
Yes we should vote for our moral issues. No one is converted by a forced legislation, but the alternative is rampant perversion. If we were acting like Jesus and genuinely loving gays, working at AIDS clinics, and praying for them, the world might trust our motives more, even if we said homosexuality was a sin. Many Christians are just so eager to point out the speck in others eye. We really have a negative reputation to overcome.
Kevin
From: Larry
To: SkinnerK
Your assessment of what "acting like Jesus" looks like (helping at aids clinics, etc.) is perfect. If Christians were 1st in line to help at places like this, we'd have something that non-Christians would want to be part of.
That being said though.....if you're not a Christian, why should you have to obey any moral laws that Christians or Jews or whatever feel are important? Why should you not do something you want to do that hurts no one (but maybe yourself) just because some Christian doesn't like it? Doesn't that seem counter-intuitive? You are not Muslim, so you eat pork (makes sense). Why should a non-Christian worry comply with moral standards of Christians?
SkinnerK wrote:
Government is going to make laws, and all laws (whether they admit it or not) are endorsing some theology and are pointing to some morality. Why not have the laws be pleasing to God?
"...as long as I don't hurt anyone else." Depends on how you define "hurt" and "anyone else". A drunk driver, a pornographer, a bigot, liar, ... I don't know the answer, but I do feel that if we don't stand up for something, the enemy will get his way.
To each his own? That would be fine to some degree, but
Allow me to reword your last question: Why should a Christian worry to comply with moral standards of non-Christians?
more to come later...
Kevin
From: Larry
To: SkinnerK
Subject: Re: Question for you
I haven't been reading about this or anything - I am just musing. I am wondering why I should spend my energy trying to 'force' non-Christians to comply with laws they have no reason to comply with. Gay marriage is a good example. If you do not take the Bible as your authority - why should you subject yourself to not marrying someone you want to just because Christians don't like it? You don't expect other people's kids to obey you (why should they?) but you expect yours to obey you. We as Christians are God's children and we should obey. Why should others?
SkinnerK wrote:
I hear you, and I do understand. It is tough to explain when someone asks, "why don't Christians just butt out of people's lives and be more tolerant?". I read a good book by Josh McDowell called "The New Tolerance" that addresses many of these questions. Its all about "tolerance" and where it is heading. It was written in 1998.
Kevin
I'm glad you found that email thread - I'd forgotten about it! But let's put the shoe on the other foot:
Suppose the birth stats are correct and that Europe and this country will be Muslim in 20 years and they have the voting power to force us to obey Sharia law. They would be doing it because they feel it's the correct moral thing to impose and that Allah would be glorified by it.
You realize I'm playing devil's advocate - but do you still feel justified?
Larry, your scaring me man! You play the devils advocate way to good! :o) If you've all seen the video about this population shift, its plain to see how easy it will be for the anti-christ to come to power. I suppose we could say, "its going to happen anyway. The Bible say so." So why bother with being active in our political system. I gues it all comes down to that verse, "He that knows how to do good things and does not do them, to him it is sin." We are to be salt and light. So, I guess we should spend our lives being salty. Salt enhanses flavor and it also burns.
Interesting reading so far...
Maybe I am not as compassionate as some but knowing the truth and understanding that others need to know the truth leads me to believe that we should be involved and should be part of the political system even when I want to say "Whatever or who cares"
Yes I do want laws agains Gay Marriage. It is repulsive to think that we as a society will condone this even though I feel it is going to happen.
I do understand however that those that have had a Bob Jones experience or some other wacky fundamentialist view on life will find some cause for concern. It is important to strike a balance between issues that are important and those that are much less important to society as a whole (not that anyone will ever agree on that :))
Craig - great use of James 4:17 and that's part of my main point! It's like Christians think that if something is "legal" it's ok to do it. They're letting bureaucrats determine their morality! Oh - Desperate Housewives is on TV, I can watch that - I'm an adult. Here's an R rated movie full of nudity - no big deal, I can handle it. They're letting the legal system determine what's right or wrong.
Would it not be better if you actually let the Bible tell you and you had to consult the Holy Spirit?
Jim, I'm certainly not saying "who cares?" as I care deeply (as you should know from my concern for those who won't hear the Gospel). I'm also not being dogmatic here - I just want everyone to think about the ramifications of legislation that's all. It can cut more ways than one.
This puts me in mind of another issue not far from this conversation regarding legislating morality. Roe Vs. Wade. Do we obey the law or do we rise up in civil disobedience?
Craig after reading this book and having an abortion described - I cannot tell you how disgusting it is. Obviously this does deprive someone of life, so this is not a discussion on morals.
What can we do about it now? I think we keep trying to influence legislators and maybe better educate the general public about what is actually going on. We also need to be working at clinics to offer help to those who think they have no other alternative.
As for Sharia Law, I would expect them to press their views on others. Does anyone think they wouldn't? I, of course, disagree with their views, and even suspect they, at least once, have known the truth (Romans 1:20)
Abortion is a no-brainer to me. Its just murder. No question.
But Larry's other "moral" issues are less clear.
I just read this morning about the stimulus package paying the National Endowment for the Arts for "arts" theatres to protect their production of pornographic perversion. (yes, its on Fox, not CNN).
If we agree with Larry, we just sit back and let it go. "Let Obama subsidize pornography, tear apart the nuclear family, strip your rights from you. We have no right to tell them what to do, because God's law doesn't apply to them".
If I still held the same views against these evil things, but wasn't a Christian, then would I be justified in fighting society over it?
There are many people who aren't believers who are fighting to protect marriage. They look at the Christians who supposedly agree with them, and say, "Why aren't you fighting for this if you truly believe it?!"
Everyone keep in mind that I wish there were no pagan beliefs and disgusting open sins, etc that plague our planet. Don’t think that I don’t want what you all want. Didn’t we as Christians try this before? What happens when this is carried too far? It was called the Crusades.
Jim’s argument is “Well I know the truth so I get to decide”. Jim, as true as that may be (and you know I agree that you are right), Muslims feel the same way and they would use the same argument to impose Sharia law.
Kevin, you’ve created a straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) argument against me. Just because I’m not necessarily FOR creating legislation against unbelievers committing sins, I am just as AGAINST spending MY MONEY on sin. I would fight tooth and nail for my right to have a nuclear family, to go to my church of choice, and to NOT have my tax dollars subsidize porn. If some private individual wants to spend his money on porn – fine, but don’t take my tax dollars and fund it, that’s a completely different argument.
Your last statement is very interesting…I’ll have to think more about it and it’s a really good point.
Back from vacation on your side of the country (South Carolina beaches). I know that the Muslims feel the same way and they would use the same argument to impose Sharia law. I would expect them to do so and it would be intellectually honest for them to follow that path. The question comes to down this one for me..."How do we show God to the world?" If we are not willing to stand up for what we believe in then what appeal does Christianity have to the non christian? If the great commandment is to go and make disciples of all men then by getting the Christian voice out in the public arena, doesn't that help that pursuit? - I am still on the opposite time zone so keep that in mind if anything is not clear.
Jim - what beaches did you visit in SC? We've got some great ones and some horrible ones!
"How do we show God the world?"
We need legislation to do this? We can stand up for what we believe without holding a gun (and via legislation that gun is literal) to their head. The ironic thing is, if we legislate morality, then we make "them" the people standing up for what they believe!
Kevin - I thought about the point you made regarding the unbeliever who wants to stop gay marriage. My answer is that he is still forcing his opinion on someone else's freedom. God doesn't prevent me from making my choices, so why do I get to choose for another person?
Edisto Island...pretty nice area
Someone is trying to legislate morality whether the atheist, or the Muslims etc. As long as everyone is trying to legislate the laws that govern morality I see no biblical reason as to why we shouldn't be involved in the process. I do advocate a calm and simple approach that would glorify God as opposed to an activist approach however